Why Success Feels Lonely (And What To Do About It)

"You're in it together, then you're on a pedestal, then you're a statue."

In this Post Bag episode, James and Freddie Birley tackle one of the most honest questions we've received: Why does success often feel more isolating than the early startup days?

From sitting in rubbish pubs with your first team believing in the vision, to suddenly being on a pedestal where everyone expects you to have all the answers, to becoming a "company relic" that new hires have never even met - the journey of scaling can be lonely.

But here's what makes this conversation different: we don't just acknowledge the loneliness; they show you why it's normal, why it sometimes serves you, and most importantly, how to fill that deficit in your life.

Together we unpack:

• Why early-stage camaraderie is so powerful (and why it can't last forever)
• The three stages of founder isolation: in it together → on a pedestal → becoming a statue
• Why your team can't be your friends at a certain scale (and that's okay)
• How projections and expectations create distance even when you're surrounded by people
• The trap of trying to "get back" to your old life vs creating a new one
• Why vulnerability is required to build new connections (even when it's uncomfortable)
• Practical strategies for re-cultivating connection outside your business

👆 If you've ever felt like you've scaled yourself into isolation, or you're five years in and realizing you've lost touch with everyone outside your business - this conversation will help you see it differently.

More from James:

Connect with James on LinkedIn or at peer-effect.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to the Periffact Postbag. I'm James Johnson, joined by Freddie Burley. We asked for your questions, and Freddie and I are going to tackle them together. These aren't theoretical case studies. It's the stuff that's keeping you up at 2 a.m. Let's get answering. Hi, this is the Periffect post bag. I'm James Johnson.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

And I'm Freddie Burley.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

So, um, what have you been up to? What's been going on over the last couple of weeks?

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Uh well, I just got back from holiday. Nice. Um, oh, I say just got back. It's it's it's disappearing in the rearview mirror.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

It always feels like that. I know. You get back and you're like, did I go on holiday? I've only been over 24 hours.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

I I do think that with holiday, it's something that we work with our clients, like making sure you recharge and get away and do stuff. And it's so easy, I found this year, just just through moving house and through like working busy and just I drifted into a stage where I I went past when I actually needed a break. And I definitely found in the month before, A, I was counting down the days, but I was also really I had a really unproductive month in terms of big things. I think to really start something big. Um and then in the week after getting back, I got so much done. And I think it's just a real reminder that that recharge, just like change of perspective, change of scenery, yeah, like new ways of looking looking at things, and just just just physically recharging has such a big so powerful.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

It does. And it's it's really interesting. I had a joke with my family that um every time I go away, big new projects come up and they like flood my inbox and it happens every single time I go away. It's like this is the best BD. I should go away more often. Energetically, I'm just attracting all this stuff. Um but it's so, so true. And I also find even just what you allow you kind of muse. I often find that whether you're in the sea or hiking or whatever you do while you travel, things percolate and the kind of sediment settles of the noise of just kind of and the accumulation of day-to-day stress and busyness and everything that's happening, and it kind of settles in a different way, and there's this quiet that happens. It normally takes me though, like four, four or five days to like properly sink into that. And by that time, sometimes you're heading home quite shortly after. But when you properly switch off, if you can do two weeks, that second week of is like proper. You'll I find myself like disconnected, off my phone, reading, really, really immersed in what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I think I agree. I think at least an opportunity once a year at least to do like a two-week break, you that second week.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

It makes such a difference.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Because I think with one, you're you're kind of you're gearing up the whole day, you go away, you're kind of you slow down, then you start mentally a couple of days before starts picking back up again, even without realizing it.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Because you're kind of anticipating, oh, I'm leaving in somebody's accountdown kind of begins. Like I'm leaving in like three, two, one. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

And and I just think that even for the team you leave behind or other people, the sense of um it's a gift for them as well in some ways. They get two, which that you they should be able to function without you for two weeks. If they don't, that probably indicates you've got other things to sort out. Yeah. Um it's so true.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

And sometimes I think, especially for some of my clients, it kind of empowers delegation in a way. Because when you do take your hands off the, especially when you're tightly holding, and you see that the team can function when you're not there, I think it also gives you permission to delegate more. Or if things really don't move while you're away, a signal of, okay, I need to change some things structurally or within this team so that I can set up the structure so that next time I go away, that things are moving. So I think either way it just gives you like it illuminates opportunities or it um gives you permission and confidence in trusting your team more.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

So, a question from Hannah. Why does success often feel more isolating than the early startup days? What have you observed?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

That's a weird mental flashback to an image of sort of sitting in a really rubbish pub on a Friday night with a really small team every Friday night. And I think and I think that sense of being all in it together, sort of knowing that you're kind of really constrained on budget, but everyone's there because they really believe. And you've got like people have given up. There were other things they could be doing, but they believe enough to not be doing them. You're you're often you're quite vision, like everyone's really aligned around a vision and a purpose. And I and I think as you get bigger, you like certainly as the leader, you get stretched away from your team, you've got management in between your role changes. Yeah. I think there's more, there's more money in play, and so people uh it can feel a bit more mercenary in terms of sort of I've got the problem fixed, you're the one to fix it. Do they believe as much? Not sure. And and sort of the loneliness of command kicks in as well, because you're just you're increasingly on the business rather than in the business.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

And I think I think maybe even outside that, suddenly you're I think all fans experience sense that once you once you launch a business or fan of business, everyone kind of thinks you've made it even before you have. And therefore your your your friends and your peer, oh, you've you've you've made, you've launched a business. It's like there's quite a lot to do. So actually you've got less interaction internally and maybe even less sympathy externally. So it does actually, I think this feeling of being sort of scaling yourself into isolation. Yeah. Does does hold.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Yeah, it's so true. And there are less people who can relate to your life experience, and often the topics that you're grappling with can be really confidential or they can be really um nuanced, and it's hard to find like trusted people who are on who get it and can speak sort of at the level of the eyes. It was interesting, I was in one of my sessions recently, it came up around this feeling it feels really lonely because people often feel almost like they either expect a lot from you, so you can often feel like everyone around you has all of these asks and expectations of you. Um, andor people can really look up to you, which can be weirdly lonely in a way, because it's it's not relational, it's not that sense of equity, we're equal but different. It's this sense of they're very impressive, and so they can't authentically connect. They have to almost hold all the conversations, they have to make people feel comfortable, they have to always have the answers, they have to, and there's this feeling or there's this kind of projection on them that they have to have it all together, they have to be kind of all seeing, all knowing, or whatever. Um, and that can be really lonely because fundamentally you're just a human.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Um, like sort of found a pedestal. Yeah. And it's sort of it's that's kind of like a lonely place to be. Yeah. And then there's a I have a client who's got to the stage further and he's been running his business for 10 years. And so he got now people coming to his business, they've never actually really interacted with him. Yeah. And that's that pedestal's almost made him into a statue. Yeah. It's kind of like, who's who's that guy? And what does he do? Yeah. It's like, oh, he's kind of it's almost like they don't know how good you are because they've never interacted you. It's kind of, oh, well, he's just kind of the founder.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

It's like it's like a company relic.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Yeah. Like, what does he know? Whether we are doing all the work. And so it feels like there's always this stage of like kind of you're in it, yeah, and then you're on a pedestal. Yeah. And then you're a statue.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Yeah. That's so interesting. And uh in the session I've just come out of, they were also talking about uh this feeling of people f finding them really intimidating until they get to know them. And again, this idea of what's projected onto you of well, you're the founder and you've created this, and therefore you're intimidating because people want to impress you or they want to um yeah, they want and so that I think it can also be quite isolating because people have an idea of who you are before they know you, and so you get a lot of projections that aren't true, they're based on what people think but not have experienced of you.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

And that's it, that's I mean, obviously you experience that a lot with like celebrity culture, it must be the same, or people in the public eye, if we have ideas of who they are, but we don't really know them. And I think that craving of being wanting to be known and seen as you are, um, is a big human one. Like we want to be, I think humans want to be known.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

I think they do. I think the thing that struck me then is a sense of like, is it important that your team knows you? Like, maybe if if that image of you serves them. And we sort of talked about this before. I think this idea of what what is your company? Yeah. And I I think when you when you're in the your early colleagues probably are your friends, but at a point they they can't be. Yeah. And I think that can be quite hard when you go, oh, this is this is my family, these are my friends, this is my everything. Yeah, actually that separation of identity becomes important. Yes. And then the actually looking for that that fulfillment outside. Yeah. Like so let's acknowledge that actually it is quite normal to feel isolated. That probably actually does serve you in some ways. It probably serves your business, yeah. But that does leave you with a deficit in your life, which is where do you get that connection? Where do you get that? And that's when you start looking at sort of peer groups or founder communities or coaching or partner.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Yeah. And that's the truth. I think often because the company can require so much of people, the company has been often like so much of them or their whole identity or such a big part of their identity, um, and so all consuming with their energy and their time. And so a lot of their connection has been from the team. But then exactly as you say, when when you start scaling, your relationship shift. And so for some people, they do have really great friend support, and whether it's in friends, investors, coaches, partners, families, like they have that infrastructure around them, and other people don't have that. And they can feel they can kind of get to a point where they're not, they're not on the same page as a lot of their team anymore, and they have they've created a bit of separation, which does serve them well in that context. But then they don't have um people around them in their life that they can be fully themselves and they can be known without expectation and without that sense of projection because of who they are. And that I think is really sacred and important. Um, but it can often be with a lot of guilt because often people feel like they've compromised a lot of their friendships and their relationships and their family relationships because they've been spending so much time and energy on the company. And so it's this interesting balance of how do you recultivate or connect with new people. So you have that.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Well, I was thinking that struck me is like sometimes then you you maybe you've been immersed in this business for five years, and then you sort of put your head up and go, right, guys, I'm back. Yeah. And actually, people have changed, like your friends have changed, their life's in a different place. Sometimes, actually, the solution is not to try and sort of find your way back to your old life, it's about creating a new one, like new friends, like hope hopefully the same partner, we've got heck cares. But like there is like a rediscovery and being quite purposeful about it and going, I do need it, but needing it does not mean reactivating what I had before, because actually they're probably different. I'm probably different, and maybe we're lucky and we've grown in the same way. Yeah, but there's a good chance that we're now at different life stages with different interests, different earning levels, different beliefs.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

And it can be both. It can be like reconnecting with people and seeing whether it feels real and whether that connection works, and also bringing new people in. I think it's sort of with relationships often that fluidity is important. It's important to yeah, spend time with the people that do feel right, and then also still be open to new friendships and relationships. And um, some of my closest friends I've made like recently, um, and they know different parts of me or we talk about different things than friends I've had for years. And I think that's also amazing because different people bring different parts out of you and understand different things, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Yeah. So it's it's not just surrounding yourself with other founders, it's like sort of see see what you value now and build that life. Like maybe it's you want to go back and I don't want tennis club, but maybe like discover like join a tennis club or or learn knitting or get into breath work or like sort of feel like the whole range of things you could explore.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

But it's quite a deliberate, it's almost like a deliberate strategy around it.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah, but I think like intention and then seeing what's real. It's that combination of like intentionality and then allow yourself to be surprised, allow life to kind of surprise you with the people that show up and the people that you connect with, and you maybe would not have imagined that you would have connected with them. And I think that's what's so yeah, beautiful about life in many ways is that sometimes you don't connect with people that you you never you could never have imagined not connecting with them anymore or not having them in your life. And then you people show up and and they're epic. And um, so yeah, full circle on her question. I think it's so normal for phases of life to feel lonely in any context, and particularly in like very intense or chaotic seasons, and just that invitation there to find people that are aligned and um which can be uncomfortable as well. I know, especially when in a few, I'm thinking of a few sessions recently of that feeling of um it requires like vulnerability, it requires putting yourself out there, it requires like speaking the truth because it's hard to connect with people that aren't um like talking about things that are real for them and important. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah. Just disconnect as normal, but you've you'll need to replace that with a new connection.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yeah, that whole process of like rupture repair, rupture repair. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Wow, this has been great. Uh we'll see you guys next week. Uh this has been the Peer Effect Podcast. If you've got any questions, send them in to hello at peer hyphen effect.com and uh yeah, see you soon.